The purpose is to allow for different speeds between the two wheels, while torque split is held constant at 50/50. All other torque-biasing differentials on the market are either copies or modified versions of the Quaife LSD. They are Auto Torque Bias diffs. The Type C is Example: when the biasing is so strong the. A torsen will wear in such that on a split, you can still do a 1-legger. work in basically the same manner: they divide the drive torque between the two axles, applying drive to … To lockers vs torsen center. I always figured they were both around 2.5:1, but without data to back it up. "The Rexxus" <==== the VIP Lexus LS400 build, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_slip_differential, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Open differentials are the most basic form of a differential. Secondly in our opinion they sell an inferior product that is way overpriced. It also has a nasty habit of loosing torque completely when you lift a wheel (which is why you never hear off road guys even consider them, or if they do to talk about applying the brakes to induce drag on the free spinning wheel). The gear differential is typically more expensive than the other types, but it also has nothing to wear out or adjust. Well one thing this site and many others are not getting too redily is actual factory data on engineering specs for parts. A day at the skidpad for drifting practice in the BMW 135i with a Helical Gear LSD! Gear differentials, like those marketed by Quaife or Torsen, use a series of parallel worm gears to distribute power to the wheel that has the most traction. Kaaz vs Torsen Differentials. like everything, people try ONE thing and then preach that it's the "bee's Knee's". TO make it simple it makes both wheels spin instead of one it splits the power between the 2. The Torsen differential* is a purely mechanical device; it has no electronics, clutches or viscous fluids. Correct? Is the unit they are manufacturing for the SVT Getrag similar in design to the diff that was made for the Ranger FX4s? I realize this is probably not an easy question to answer unless you are in the diff design business - I had an FX4 and the Torsen it had was really great. This clever design revolutionised the differential market - offering a superior level of performance and warranties compared to its competitors. JavaScript is disabled. The Quaife almost guarantees traction during split traction events due to the amount of gears that are required to rotate in so many different axis. how it drives once installed comparison (I will use an autocross situation of pulling out of a tight turn for this example): the Torsen design does not control rotational speed at all. Thank you for this first hand information. The bias ratio for both units is around 2.1:1. The difference between the gripper and the quaife is the gripper is a clutch type diff and the quaife is a gear type "or torsen" The Clutch type diffs work based on wheel speed, after one wheel spins x% faster then the other it starts locking up to slow down the fast wheel and speed up the slow wheel. With most people just claiming the only difference between the 2 is the quality of the casing and the warranty... ask him if he can get a tear down manual for the getrag tranny. The factory BMW Motorosports LSD are gear types (like MFactory Wavetrac, Quaife), and honestly as good or better than all of the above. imho, neither is better nor worse than the other. Torque biasing does not necessarily limit slip. We have ran them all except OS-Giken, you left one out though. I also realize one is clearly off-road and the other pretty much street only, but the Torsen diffs have a lot of commonalities. The only reason to choose a clutch type differential over a torsen (Quaife) type differential is if you frequently get a drive wheel up in the air, such as in rally racing or when bouncing over large curb sections on road courses. Nothing but issues with the Quaifes we had. The engineers only have access to the engeneering prints for the product they are working on, and sometimes only the part they are working on. i think F2 was trying to get Kaaz to start making and selling their plate dif again... don't know if it's reality or not, yet.... Forum community dedicated to Ford Focus owners and enthusiasts. (for a more thorough, technical explanation we've included a link to the Torsen website at the bottom of this page). A Torsen style differential like the Quaife and the Torsen T-1 have helical gears, so you were correct there, the off-the-shelf Torsen T-2 for the SVT Ford Focus and MINI has parallel gears, close enough to be partially correct. 2. If that's the case, I made the wrong decision, which explains why I still sometimes only see one patch when launching. The Torsen 2R has a strong bias to get back on full lockup quicker than a T2 or any clutch LSD will. Make LE's efforts sustainable. + Quaife vs Wavetec by Hank » Thu May 30, 2013 9:34 pm They are adjustable with different shims, just like they are in Quattro Torsen apps. he cant, I asked. This is where the parking brake "trick" can help out. So if I waded through the jargon well enough, what you're saying is that the Torsen is a better unit for Road courses/autocross and the Quaife is better for Drag. The Torsen T-2R RaceMaster is the only Torsen to have a preload clutch. Come join the discussion about RS/ST performance, modifications, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! The name comes from the term Torque-Sensing, and is gear driven, unlike other types of LSD's which are viscous or clutch type. Beware of imitations! Which is fine for racing, or very spirited driving. Advertisement . El Torsen tiene algo más de capacidad de bloqueo que el Quaife, en el caso del S2000 no sé los números exactos pero en otros coches suele ser 2.5:1 para el Quaife y 3:1 para el Torsen. Quaife Engineering has been in the forefront of high performance transmission technology since 1965. In this situation the Quaife differential’s inherent torque transfer characteristics work in reverse to transfer torque away from the locking wheel. Instead, it uses gears that can provide instant response to changes in traction. So if you do have a torsen or quaife and you're still getting one wheel to break free constantly, you'd be best suited to invest in some sticky tires. That way, the torque required to break the tire free would be greater, and hopefully greater than the torque required for the differential to operate differently than an open diff. We do not use or quote TBR figures as they don't really mean much to anyone. The Torsen appears to be way more expensive. A clutch type LSD will lock up better and depending on your power output, be less likely to fail. There is also a specialist application of the T-2, known as the T-2R (RaceMaster). The latest Torsen T-3 (Type C) is a planetary type differential, in that the nominal torque split is not 50:50. The torsen becomes an open diff if you lift one wheel. Anyone know why Torsen would go with a 2.5:1 bias and not something higher? and in english please lol. For gear types, wavetrac, and M-factory are the two best options. 3. Re: Quaife, pros and cons. I will not make any more arguments. It will bias the torque more severe than the Torsen. So, even if a wheel is airborne, torque is applied to the other side. Quaife sells it on their own website as a "Helical LSD". I am taking what I can get at this point, besides some engineering data is still better than hype and speculation that has been thrown around so far. I think your only difference will be 2.5:1 bias v. 4.5:1 bias. If you want to make the rotational speed argument (which is just another way of saying slip) then you should be able to understand that the Torsen design does not control rotational speed at all. Help us to make future videos for you. ford doesn't have one, and I'd definitely like to get one if I ever need to rebuild my trans in the future. This is to all the SVT owners who have been drooling for the new Torsen to come out at a cheaper price point than the Quaife is for the SVT. First of all we don’t like the people at that ‘other LSD company’ they’re d***. This gear kit went on to compete with considerable success at the famous Daytona events, embodied a philosophy that still central to Quaife-that of affordable excellence. hmm that is very interesting, but no offense to your source, i'd like a confirmation from a second source or even torsen/quaife. Complete Acronym/Abbreviaton and Forum Terminology List, http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/announcement.php?f=90, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. What would yall say the pros and cons of the Torsen vs the standard LSD are? The best of both worlds seems to be the Wavetrac, manteinance free, Torsen type but with just a pair of clutches to work (a bit) also with a lifted wheel. A limited slip differential (LSD) is a modified or derived type of differential gear arrangement that allows for some difference in rotational velocity of the output shafts, but does not allow the difference in speed to increase beyond a preset amount. The later Torsen T-2 (Type B) uses a parallel gear arrangement to achieve a similar effect. ­The Torsen (from Torque Sensing) works as an open differential when the amount of torque going to each wheel is equal.As soon as one wheel starts to lose traction, the difference in torque causes the gears in the Torsen differential to bind together. Another benefit is that the gears don’t … In an automobile, such limited slip differentials are sometimes used in place of a standard differential, where they convey certain dynamic advantages, at the expense of greater complexity. The internal gearing creates thrust forces rather than relying on spring or hydro mechanisms. The type 2 is a marginally stronger design, but both will hold in excess of 250ftlbs of torque. It appears that under throttle they do. That is great. What are the design tradeoffs that come with a higher bias? All of these 4.3 differentials also came with a Type 1 or a Type 2 Torsen, the Type 2s coming from post 96 special edition cars. Realmente no hay mucha diferencia entre ambos, en teoría el Quaife induciría menos subviraje a la entrada de la curva pero tendría aportaría menos capacidad de tracción que el Torsen. All gear LSDs (including Torsen®, Truetrac®, Quaife®, Peloquin, OBX, etc.) Limited-Slip Differential vs Torsen. For everyday driving the Torsen is fine, it's 'better' than an open center and will mimic the locked center up to front wheel spin in a straight line. On loose surfaces what you could find is strong torque steer. Quaife Engineering has been in the forefront of high performance transmission technology since 1965. A torsen will wear in such that on a split, you can still do a 1-legger. Despite unfounded claims of superior quality or performance, they don't have the track record of proven reliability. so the handling on twisty/snowy roads is much better in my experience. Just a curious thought. Then based on hexial cut gears meshing with eachother and additional gears, and the fluid in the diff the friction in those gears causes a ratio of the torque to go to the wheel that is rotating slower than the other. so i guess ur guy at getrag basically is saying shell out the extra $ and get the quaife cause it works better. A Torsen differential, which is a type of helical differential, does not use clutches as a traditional LSD does. either way i think the torsen will be a good thing because it'll sure drag the price of the quaife down a bit at least. Since the forward bias is the same or nearly the same that means the helical angles are the same or nearly the same. This lines up well with some research I did a few years ago where it pointed to a Quaife being "greater than" the typical accepted value of 2:1, and a Torsen being "less than" the typical accepted value of 3:1. The Torsen stays static or. A Quiaffe or Torsen are not Limited Slip Differentials. THeres hardly an english way to explain how an ATB diff works. Off throttle.... could be up to interpretation. This gear kit went on to compete with considerable success at the famous Daytona events, embodied a philosophy that still central to Quaife-that of affordable excellence. On the Torsen website they do not list the application for the SVT yet so I couldn't find a comparison to the FX4 unit. The Gripper is a Weisman-type LSD, which we used in our 300-bhp rally car (see my avatar). What it means is that via the ring gear, there is X amount of torque being fed to the diff. I think it is more important for people to understand the basics behind what they're buying and what the resultant driving behavior is once they're on the road. ok , i knida understand what an lsd is , but exactly how does it help you , on the launch , what is its exact function ? Advantages of the quaife are: * More progressive in operation - the clutch type will be sudden when engaging * Maintenance free - the clutch type will require occasional adjustment, depending on usage. JavaScript is disabled. Rodney Quaife produced the first 5 speed gear cluster for a Triumph motorcycle. in the focus world, simply because there are no serious plate-type difs on the market as an option, everyone just defaults between the quaife and the torsen. Torsen Differential: The Torsen (Torque – Sensing) differential employs the use of some clever gearing to produce the same effect as a limited Slip Differential without the need for clutches or fluid resistance. Which would be my experience as well. The Quaife almost guarantees traction during split traction events due to the amount of gears that are required to rotate in so many different axis. Our example vehicle for the Torsen AWD system is the B5.5 VW Passat 4motion, a platform-mate with the Audi A4 Quattro. A forum community dedicated to Ford Focus owners and enthusiasts. It achieves this by adding a layer of worm gearing to the traditional gear set up of an open differential. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. If one wheel were raised in the air, the regular Torsen units would act like an open differential, and no torque would be transferred to the other wheel. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Quaife vs other torque-biasing differentials. The TBR is a very difficult thing to measure (we know this from our work with OEM diffs) and actually not very useful. These LSD types handle transitions much more progressively than the Quaife Torsen-type when you set the preload low (we typically set a breakaway torque of about 60-ft-lbs.) The ATB (Ashcroft, Quaife) style differentials are stronger still and are likely to outlast the rest of the drivetrain. Come join the discussion about SVT performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Quaife Engineering Ltd is a British manufacturer of automotive drivetrain products, specialising in performance transmissions, gearkits & differentials. Is the standard LSD or torsen better for drag racing? SJulian10mm Well-Known Member. Rodney Quaife produced the first 5 speed gear cluster for a Triumph motorcycle. The Quaife torque biasing differential enables your car … Getrag is very careful about who gets access to what. IMrecentE where the torsen and lockers start to take on big personality differences, is in a performance driving environment. Joined Jan 16, 2017 Posts 373 Reaction score 108 Location Marysville, Jefferson Vehicle(s) I'll just point you to the manufacturer's websites and you can read for yourself what they market. First off: we get the same questions from people when they ask us why we don’t sell Torsen type LSD’s. () The Quaife ATB (Automatic Torque Biasing) differential is a unique type of limited-slip diff that substantially improves traction for powerful vehicles using only gear mechanisms. again im not saying he is wrong, i'd just think a second opinion is definitely a good thing. Torsen is the brand name of the limited slip differential available in Miatas from 1994-2005. Please support us at Patreon.com ! what works best in an AutoX/road course setup is highly dependant on the car, drive train layout and speeds at which the car will reach. This enhances deceleration, delaying the intrusion of electronic ABS systems and allowing drivers to brake later and deeper with the Quaife ATB limited slip differential than is possible with a standard ‘open’ differential unit. Its technicly designed better and for more harsh driving. 'S the `` bee 's Knee 's '' would yall say the pros and of! 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